Fostering Self-Respect and Growth Amidst the Tech Tidal Wave in Therapy
Mar 12, 2024
Aubrey Baptista / Michelle Rosenberg
Have you ever felt the walls closing in with anxiety, struggling to find a balance in the digital age? Michelle Rosenberg, a mental health maven from Hendersonville, joins us to share her innovative telehealth approach to therapy that's reshaping the lives of working moms and college students. Through her narrative of relocating from Florida to North Carolina, Michelle highlights how setting clear boundaries isn't just a buzzword—it's a vital step towards self-respect and personal growth. Her success stories are not only uplifting but a testament to the positive impact of therapy that fits into our tech-savvy lives.
This episode also shines a spotlight on the often unspoken societal pressures women face as nurturers and the ramifications of not fitting into this conventional mold. We delve into the tricky waters of diagnosing mental health conditions, where symptoms often masquerade as each other, and the delicate dance of integrating medication into a treatment plan. It's a collaborative exploration with Michelle, where we unravel the nuances of each individual's journey without being hemmed in by labels. Tune in to gain insights from a professional who's at the forefront of merging technology with the timeless quest for mental wellness.
Have you ever felt the walls closing in with anxiety, struggling to find a balance in the digital age? Michelle Rosenberg, a mental health maven from Hendersonville, joins us to share her innovative telehealth approach to therapy that's reshaping the lives of working moms and college students. Through her narrative of relocating from Florida to North Carolina, Michelle highlights how setting clear boundaries isn't just a buzzword—it's a vital step towards self-respect and personal growth. Her success stories are not only uplifting but a testament to the positive impact of therapy that fits into our tech-savvy lives.
This episode also shines a spotlight on the often unspoken societal pressures women face as nurturers and the ramifications of not fitting into this conventional mold. We delve into the tricky waters of diagnosing mental health conditions, where symptoms often masquerade as each other, and the delicate dance of integrating medication into a treatment plan. It's a collaborative exploration with Michelle, where we unravel the nuances of each individual's journey without being hemmed in by labels. Tune in to gain insights from a professional who's at the forefront of merging technology with the timeless quest for mental wellness.
Be sure to visit BizRadio.US to discover hundreds more engaging conversations, local events and more.
Aubrey:
Welcome to Kindred Conversations, the show where we shine a light on local mental health professionals, who are the unsung heroes of our community. Join us as we delve into their journeys, strategies and the art of healing minds. Together, we'll break down stigmas and celebrate resilience. I'm really excited today because we have Michelle Rosenberg who I'm just getting used to her new last name here. She is a local mental health professional, and by local I mean she is in the same community as I am in Hendersonville, treating a similar population to me. Women in the women that you are treating are with anxiety, michelle. Yeah, so tell me more, because you just opened your practice here in North Carolina but you're from Florida, so you kind of still see some clients in both locations. How's that been going?
Michelle :
Yeah, absolutely so. First I just wanted to say, Aubrey, thanks so much for having me. I'm super excited to be here and to have the chance to talk with you.
Aubrey:
Yeah, thanks for joining.
Michelle :
Yeah, thank you. So yes, I started my private practice in Florida in 2021. Like you said, I am from Florida. I had been living down there for over 20 years, so I did my grad program there. I did all my post-grad work and supervision down there and then my husband and I moved up here a year ago and we've been absolutely loving it. So I am still seeing quite a few clients from Florida via telehealth. My practice is 100% telehealth and I'm just beginning to get my feet wet in the community here in Hendersonville.
Aubrey:
Yeah, that's awesome and I mean telehealth is really the way to go. I mean, about two-thirds of my practice right now is telehealth and I do have the select handful of people who really want the in-person. But I will say like there is a large bit of people, especially like people who are working, and they can't just like drive to their therapist's office Even if their therapist is close by. That's nice to have sometimes, but most of the time it's helpful just to have like that person that you can reach out to, you know, on your phone or whatever, right?
Michelle :
Right. I see so many of my clients are either working moms or they're also college students. I've been, while I work with a lot of women in like their 40s, 50s and early 60s. I do have quite a bit of my clients who are still doing their undergrad and so just those busy schedules make it super easy to connect with their therapist. Like you said, even if the therapist is local, that's still in our neck of the woods. That's still going to be probably at least a 20-minute drive.
Aubrey:
Yeah, it's kind of like that time is going to add up over the course of the time that you're working on yourself in therapy, and so you know most of the benefits of therapy are just in the relationship itself. So I mean for some people that is really important to be in person, but there's many, many, many people who that's not.
Michelle :
Right and I absolutely understand that. There is something. One of the things I did like in Florida was I did have office space and it was I did enjoy that one-on-one, you know, face-to-face, connection. But I have found over the years that you still have, you can still have that rapport, even with the computer screen.
Aubrey:
Yeah, for sure. I think, like the majority of our relationship has actually been built well, I guess partially because we hung out in Zenhen before Zenhen closed but yes, I know. We get the rare experience of Zenhen now.
Michelle :
Yeah, but it's true, like you and I first met over Zoom when I was still in Florida. And yet when I moved up here, I still felt like I had that connection to you and it was very comfortable to just reach out and say, hey, I'm local now.
Aubrey:
Yeah, that was cool. I want to find out a little bit more. Like you know, maybe one or two good examples of like people that you have helped along the way. That you felt like were just moments that you were feeling really proud of the work that you did, the work that they did just like how, because you really specialized in anxiety, right. So like tell me more about, like someone, that kind of situation or what was a typical story for them?
Michelle :
I have actually two clients that come to mind and with the first client, she had been carrying she's middle age and had been carrying such stress, family stress and worries with her by the time she came to this is we met in Florida. I started working with her in Florida in person and it was like literally, she just kind of flopped on the couch, if you will, just that, oh my gosh, I just it's time. It's time that I really face these things, and it's been such a pleasure working with her all this time and seeing her you know, seeing us build that rapport, seeing her feel comfortable enough to open up and start implementing boundaries and start taking steps towards facing the things that she feared most.
Aubrey:
Yeah, so for her to implement boundaries, that means that she's starting to recognize a certain level of self-respect.
Michelle :
Yes, and then to see that wow, not you know. It's like not only could she actually take out those steps, implement those boundaries, stand up for herself, but also find that this was not a bad thing, like the world was still gonna continue spinning on its axis, right, like I think people, my clients, come in and they're just so, they're so afraid of not being that people, please, are that they really do feel like the world is going to end and they really feel like the problem is on them, when, in reality, I've yet to meet a client where what they were saying was not understandable.
Aubrey:
So what you're saying is like if somebody needs somebody to talk to you about setting boundaries, then they should probably call you, because you're gonna set them straight on which way that they should lean.
Michelle :
Yeah, I feel like setting boundaries is such is like my is one of my strong suits in the therapy room. It's something I feel I have a really good handle on and it's something I feel like I can explain well, I feel like one of the things that I can, one of the things that I really bring to the therapy room as a therapist, is my ability to build a good rapport. That was something that you know. Let me back up for a minute.
Michelle :
Counseling is my second career. Before counseling, I was a legal assistant for 24 years and in that time I had to speak to all sorts of attorneys, judges, court officials, clients, you know, who are hurting in their own way, right Like you don't do a see an attorney because everything's great, and so the skills I had in building a rapport with all the different people I spoke to in the legal field really serves me well in building a rapport with my clients today. So I feel like, yes, I can offer a really comfortable space for people to come and, you know, help support them as they take the steps towards positive change.
Aubrey:
Yeah, and oftentimes that means like putting limitations or setting boundaries, and, like you, said like you oftentimes see, like people pleasing you know, that's a theme that I see so much of. Like what kind of what do you see with that? Like, what kind of patterns do you see around it?
Michelle :
I see women who feel they can't say no and if they say no it's something wrong with them. And I think you know society still, for all the positive change that we've seen in the world in general, I do think, as women are still receiving that message that we are supposed to be nice, especially, I'm going to say, like Gen X, baby Boomers, the older generation I hate to categorize people by generations, but I do think those two generations especially, we're still getting the message of you know, girls are supposed to be nice and nice people don't say no. Because now I'm seeing, you know, middle-aged and older women coming in and feeling that they can't say no to friendships that aren't working, to family members that are not treating them with respect, relationships that are just not working anymore.
Aubrey:
How much of that do you feel like is almost like kind of ingrained in women from a sense of, like you know, oftentimes women do have a strong sense of empathy, and I'm not saying that men don't have a strong sense of empathy. I think like there's a difference that I see in men and women and, like their, I guess the overall, the overarching trend across the board is like there's just a stronger empathetic level in a lot of women.
Michelle :
Oh, I would agree, and you know it even goes back to what we were learning in school, you know. Let's take bullying, for example. Studies show that boys who bully it's going to be a more physical thing, Whereas with girls who bully and we're talking middle school and high school age girls are going to do a more emotional bullying. So I think, on several different, you know, from several different angles, on several different layers, with women it is a much more empathetic, emotional way of being. So I think it's, you know, and I think society is still supporting that, whether society as a whole really realizes that or not right, You're saying it's more like an.
Aubrey:
The expectation is an exploitation of women's natural tendency towards empathy.
Michelle :
I don't know if it's an exploitation, I think, but I think it's. It's societal messages as still ingrained in. You know, women are the caretakers, women are the nurturers, women play nice. You know women in business, for example, if a man is a CEO, that's a great thing. If a woman's a CEO, you know how is she described? Is her drive to get her to that point? Is that as celebrated as it is for a man?
Aubrey:
Well, and I think what we're saying is problematic, is that it's not necessarily problematic if a woman wants to be that way, in a way that makes her feel confident and powerful, but when it becomes problematic is when it's expected for women to be nice and not speak up, and then they get in trouble. So they either get like talked down to, or they get gaslit, or something happens that basically kind of puts them in their place, so to speak.
Michelle :
Yeah, that's it 100%. Right, Like 100%. It is wonderful if a woman is being empathetic or taking care of her family or being the one to kind of keep those friendships going right. If she's the one putting in a little extra effort into the friendships, that's great. But, like you said, when it becomes a problem, when it's bringing a person down and making them feel like they're not doing enough, then that's when it's a problem. And when they're coming to therapy because they're feeling that poorly, that's a problem.
Aubrey:
Yeah. So people might say that, okay, they're coming to therapy because they're feeling anxious, but oftentimes what you're finding are these areas of their life where there's things intruding on their piece.
Michelle :
Yes, yes, and I think too, even when people come in for a specific reason let's say they're having trouble with their relationship with their mom and they don't really have good boundaries and everything like that you're going to tend to find that in other areas too. I mean, one of the things that's so exciting, I think, about therapy, but can also be really scary for a client, is that you don't always know what's going to come up. You might be coming up, you might be coming because you want to talk about your relationship with your mom, but something like boundaries tends to be across the board, right Like all of a sudden. Then you might be realizing whoa, I'm not keeping good boundaries at work, or how is this affecting me with my friendships? And I think that's something perhaps our field maybe doesn't do a good enough job of explaining.
Aubrey:
Of how those relationships can play out in other players in one's life.
Michelle :
Yes, you can only compartmentalize things so much.
Aubrey:
Yeah, like an anxious attachment style and play out in a friendship. It can play out in a parent relationship. It can play out in a romantic relationship.
Michelle :
Exactly. I have another client that I'm thinking of. We've been doing a lot of work on boundaries. She's seeing how boundaries we were discussing when it comes to her ex can also be applied to boundaries with her mother and can actually also be applied when she's dealing with the administration at her daughter's school. And it's really cool when you see that. Look on the client's face, that aha moment when they realize boundaries are important, just like self-care is really important, when the client makes that connection of oh, now I understand why you've been stressing this so much, so to me that's really exciting to see.
Aubrey:
Yeah, it is really exciting to see. I have like a selfish question to ask, and I say it selfish because it kind of is applicable to my practice as well. But like there's a lot of like naysayers about like ADHD and the growth of ADHD, but I think a lot of people, the reason the critics say it is because that there's also a lot of anxiety and it kind of is all stemming from this like very busy media driven world that we live in, and so what I wonder about is like how much of like your clients do you see that overlap in that world of ADHD and how much do you see like a misdiagnosis around that?
Michelle :
Oh wow, such a great question, because I do see a surprising amount of ADHD, I also see depression, I also see some bipolar, and the thing is right like it can be difficult to tease out a diagnosis because there can be so much overlap.
Aubrey:
Yeah, I mean. This regulation looks like this regulation, regardless of what the diagnosis is.
Michelle :
Right, I mean. And so sometimes I do think of course I do accept some insurances and so, of course, with an insurance you do need to give a diagnosis, because that's how our insurance world is set up. But yeah, it can be so hard, like, on one hand, having I see a diagnosis as a label, meaning it gives us a place to start, but at the same time, I don't want that label to box a client in. Like you said, you can start with anxiety, but then, as I work with a client, it's like wait a minute, I'm seeing more and more ADHD.
Aubrey:
Yeah. So then at that point do you kind of shift strategies, Do you?
Michelle :
It really depends on the client Because, like you said, emotional dysregulation is emotional dysregulation. So it really just does depend on the situation and the client. Sometimes we keep working with what we have, with what we're doing. Other times I do refer out for testing and possible getting information on medication, if that's something a client is interested in.
Aubrey:
Yeah, that's true. So especially for, like the depression and bipolar and ADHD, these are all treatable, as well as the anxiety. They're all treatable with medication. Right, I think those become conversations as well, right.
Michelle :
Yeah, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt. Yeah, that's it exactly. Those just become conversations to have with the client and together we just develop a plan of attack.
Aubrey:
I'm sorry to interrupt you. Was there something that you were going to say in that segue there?
Michelle :
No, no, not at all. I think I was heading in the same direction you were, With the idea that it is it's always a conversation and it's always developing. Therapy is fluid and we just keep rolling with what we have.
Aubrey:
Yeah, I agree with that, and I do think that there's some spiraling back that we do in therapy, but then there's also a lot of just like present day. This is the ish that I'm dealing with right now and just kind of laying it all out there and seeing, like, ok, sometimes all we can do is just report on it and then hope it gets better the next week.
Michelle :
Yeah, I think ultimately too, it's also about that report and that relationship we have the client, and sometimes we're just holding space for a client and other times we're really digging into things.
Aubrey:
Yeah, yeah and saying like, OK, well, is there another time that you've seen this pattern coming up and kind of reflecting on different types of things? And those aha moments with the clients really are the best, Because I've had them myself in therapy right.
Michelle :
It's like, yeah, of course.
Aubrey:
And the light bulb goes off and you're like whoa, yes, that makes some differences Exactly. Michelle, it's so much fun having you on today, Can?
Michelle :
you tell?
Aubrey:
us more like where can we find you? Where are you at in the virtual world?
Michelle :
OK, so my website is mbrtherapyservicescom. The MBR is the Michelle Bennett Rosenberg, as you alluded to in the beginning. Aubrey, yes, I did go through a recent name change, so mbrtherapyservicescom. I also have an Instagram and Facebook at mbrtherapyservices and, yeah, I think the website's the best place to get the most up-to-date information on what I'm up to.
Aubrey:
Awesome. Well, thanks again for joining, michelle. For those of you, listening in. Yeah, so bizradious is where you can find us. You can also find out more information about my practice. Aubrey Baptista Kindred, wwwrtherapynccom. All right, take care.