Celebrating the Spectrum with Dr. Frank Gaskill's Innovative Vision
Mar 19, 2024
Aubrey Baptista / Dr. Frank Gaskill
Discover a new lexicon of empowerment as Dr. Frank Gaskill reshapes the narrative around autism with his uplifting philosophy and innovative methods. With his remarkable work, Frank steers clear of the traditional language of autism, instead using more positive, aspirational terminology that celebrates neurodiversity. Our conversation with Frank is not just an exploration of his transformative approach but also a journey into the unique 'flavor' individuals on the spectrum bring to our world. His use of a comic book to make autism more accessible demonstrates his creative flair for connecting with children and families in ways that resonate deeply.
Join us as we unpack Frank's analogies and strategies for enhancing self-awareness among those on the spectrum. His vision for integrating social skills and self-awareness into treatment with Health Pro Pediatrics offers a fresh perspective on expanding traditional ABA therapy. Frank's connection to autism and his dedication to his clients shine through, providing an enlightening perspective that's both heartfelt and inspiring. Be part of an uplifting discussion that's not just about the challenges but about the opportunities and joys of embracing the spectrum.
Discover a new lexicon of empowerment as Dr. Frank Gaskill reshapes the narrative around autism with his uplifting philosophy and innovative methods. With his remarkable work, Frank steers clear of the traditional language of autism, instead using more positive, aspirational terminology that celebrates neurodiversity. Our conversation with Frank is not just an exploration of his transformative approach but also a journey into the unique 'flavor' individuals on the spectrum bring to our world. His use of a comic book to make autism more accessible demonstrates his creative flair for connecting with children and families in ways that resonate deeply.
Join us as we unpack Frank's analogies and strategies for enhancing self-awareness among those on the spectrum. His vision for integrating social skills and self-awareness into treatment with Health Pro Pediatrics offers a fresh perspective on expanding traditional ABA therapy. Frank's connection to autism and his dedication to his clients shine through, providing an enlightening perspective that's both heartfelt and inspiring. Be part of an uplifting discussion that's not just about the challenges but about the opportunities and joys of embracing the spectrum.
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Aubrey:
Welcome to Kindred Conversations, the show where we shine a light on local mental health professionals, who are the unsung heroes of our community. Join us as we delve into their journeys, strategies and the art of healing minds. Together, we'll break down stigmas and celebrate resilience. Today, I'm so excited to introduce Dr Frank Gaskill. Frank and I met through the North Carolina Private Practice Clinicians. Frank was previously the owner of one of the largest organizations here in North Carolina and now he practices solo in Fayetteville, north Carolina. And so Frank is here today to talk to us about his practice and his work with kids and families with autism. Welcome, frank, thank you very much.
Frank:
It's so good to see you.
Aubrey:
Yeah, it's so great to see you too, and you know I've really enjoyed getting to know you over the last year or so. Prior to that I have not known you and so I'm relatively new to the mental health field, but you've been in it for a while now, so it's exciting to have you here on our show, because you bring a lot of experience to the table.
Frank:
Thank you. Yeah, I've really enjoyed meeting you. I think you're doing some excellent work.
Aubrey:
Oh well, thank you so much. I think some of the things that really were exciting to me and the work that you've done is making autism really accessible to families through the comic book. Sorry, my brain was blanking A comic book that you did, and you've also changed up some of the language that families use around autism. And so those things help to make it an easier thing to talk about. So what kind of are those ways that you have changed the way that we talk about it and how have you seen that help families?
Frank:
Absolutely. I don't use the word autism or Asperger's.
Aubrey:
Sure.
Frank:
Because they carry a lot of baggage and the history behind those terms is really bad.
Aubrey:
Yeah. I've been looking into that, into some different books and resources. I've read about that and Dr Asperger. My understanding is that he really dehumanized children and was not like he didn't think of a child as a whole person.
Frank:
No, he didn't. And he also turned them over to a hospital that was run by Nazis and allowed them to die from various neglect issues. And, yeah, it was a dark time. Lena Horne who coined the phrase Asperger's she brought it to light and I like what she did. But I use the analogy of the lemon and you can see a bunch of my videos at Fat Cat Psych, psyschcom and I basically say on the left side you've got a glass of water, then you have lemon flavored water, lemonade, a lemon and a lemon farm. It's less and more, it's not good or bad. And also say to my clients you know, I couldn't drink a water without lemon in it. So you guys bring flavor to the world and allow for things that haven't been dreamed of. And I'm just, I'm in awe of this mind. I'm on the spectrum. My dad was, my granddad was. I mean, I've seen Star Wars over 500 times. That's about all you need to know. Yeah, it's pretty bad.
Aubrey:
Yeah, we went pretty deep on that conversation once.
Frank:
Yes, yeah, it's pretty bad. But yeah, I'm down here in Fayetteville now I'm with a company called Health Pro Pediatrics which is primarily ABA, autism focused, and they want me to expand what it is that they're doing and that's the way I'm wired.
Aubrey:
Yeah, and ABA is not your typical modality.
Frank:
No, no, they've got a ton of ABA people and they're really good, like really good, and they've got an amazing facility. But I want to do something different and that's why I'm here.
Aubrey:
Yeah, so by different, you're saying that rather than strictly just doing ABA, you're going to incorporate more into the treatment model.
Frank:
Well, social skills, self-awareness, celebrating the spectrum Sorry.
Aubrey:
So definitely an expansion of services.
Aubrey:
And, for those who are listening in, I actually did a previous episode with Lindsay Lindquist, who practices ABA, but she practices it in a way that is heavily trauma-informed and so yes, and so she is utilizing all of the best parts of ABA while also creating humanity within that and serving teens and families with autism, and so that's a really great area of development there.
Aubrey:
And I also have a relationship over here with the St Gerard House in Hendersonville and they also use ABA, but it is also in a way that is very heavily trauma-informed and there's a lot of oversight that goes into the implementation of their program. But one thing that we talked about in Lindsay's episode so I won't go too far in depth in this here is that ABA does have some controversy around just how children are treated and behaviorism in general, around working with children and how autistics have grown up to say and look back and say that that they just did things to comply and that it made them have to mask even further, and so that's really the. What ABA therapists nowadays are trying to avoid is like not setting up kids for future harm. So that's something that you're looking closely at as well, right?
Frank:
Yes, because I've had so many clients who have been hurt not just socially by other kids, but institutionally from schools, and it makes me a little crazy because, like, I have a client who I would say in high school he was he wasn't nonverbal but limited and he's now a security programmer for banks and courts. And he sent me an email, or maybe it was on Twitter, and I'm like, seriously, dude, you just need to write what you're thinking, because it's so amazing. And I have another client he was in the newspaper down there in Gaston County, I guess, and he put his story out there and he said, yeah, when I was a little kid, the doctor said I was quote unquote mentally retarded, and I'm like that's rough. And he now has his MBA and is just an absolutely amazing human being. And what I say to families is like they take a little bit longer to cook. I had one mom who said is my son ever gonna live on her zone? I'm like, yeah, I mean I don't know what you're talking about. And he's now in aerospace and engineering.
Aubrey:
Yeah, I think something that people really need to understand is that the idea of living alone. It's not necessarily like the healthiest model, because what people are typically thinking of is like complete independence, like you can do everything for yourself.
Frank:
But when you?
Aubrey:
really think about it. Even the people who do not have like neurodiversity, like our neurotypicals, they're still gonna need help with things from the house and things that they do. They might not need the same type of help as somebody who is neurodiverse, but they will still probably need help. So things like I have somebody out here doing a quote for the driveway right now, Like we're not gonna do our own driveway.
Frank:
Right. You know, yeah, that's a good point.
Aubrey:
Yeah, and so like why would it be any different for someone else, like who is neurodiverse, like I'm just thinking about? How say they need help with neurodiverse? Say they need help with meal prep. Yeah you know well, somebody can come and help them with meal prep.
Frank:
Yeah, there's a, an outfit out in I think it's Boulder, colorado, because all the warehouses in Denver are just it's for pot and so they had to go to Boulder to find a cheaper warehouse. But it's on mass transit and these young men and young women come in and people donate their computers and these folks take the computers apart piece by piece, separate the parts, because there's a lot of gold in a computer and they make a good living. I'll tell you that right now. And they're independent and some of those guys and and young ladies are nonverbal, but they can take a computer part like nobody.
Aubrey:
Yeah, so it's a matter of fit and trying to find the right fit for someone who does not fit the typical mold of what's expected from a high school or college graduate, but that doesn't mean there's not a place for them.
Frank:
Right, there's a place in Charlotte called Zab's place, Z-A-B-S, and they do crafts and sell miscellaneous things and they're making a good living and they typically end up being roommates and learn how to navigate that, I guess.
Aubrey:
So, frank, one of the things I just noticed in my own language was that I said them and it really triggered me to think like, why am I saying them? I also have my own neurodiversity, and so do you. I wonder, in what ways has your autism had any effect on your current circumstances or past circumstances?
Frank:
Yeah.
Aubrey:
That's a great question.
Frank:
I've never been asked that.
Aubrey:
Sure.
Frank:
I mean, in my past it was severe bullying and exclusion, because that was a completely weirdo. And then I met these two guys who became my best friends back when I was like 11 or 12, maybe. And they're still my best friends and we talk at least once a week, if not more, and they said dude, do you need to try new foods or we need to get you a legitimate haircut and I'm like okay, that's fine, I'll do whatever you say.
Frank:
You're nice to me, and then you know it all worked out and it's still working out. It's just like I'm in a culture right now that people just kind of sit in their office and eat lunch. I'm like, no, I mean you got a foosball table out here. What are we doing here? I mean we got to have some fun.
Aubrey:
Yeah, so you bring the flavor. That's what the lemon's all about right, you bring the flavor.
Frank:
Yeah, I would say that's true, they're not used to it and I get that, but I have this. This is an aside, but I have. This thing that I've always done is I remember to always give a gift to someone, and that can be just like a TV recommendation, like a Reacher. If you haven't seen Reacher, you need to watch it. It's incredible. And they're like oh, I think I've heard of that I'm like, yeah, and we talk about Dune.
Frank:
And then yesterday I took everybody doughnuts and they said nobody's ever come here and taken care of us like this. Like well, we're going to change that. When they see my office get decorated, which will be next week, they're going to lose their minds.
Aubrey:
Yeah, because you're bringing the movie posters. Some yes, yeah, yeah so one of the things that we bonded over was the fact that Frank will put up all different types of movie posters and rotate them out as conversation pieces with his clients, because this is something that helps people on the spectrum really be able to open up is when they can see that you've seen the same movie as them and then we can talk about a common subject.
Frank:
Yeah, and I, um, I threw out all of my ties like 14 years ago.
Aubrey:
And now.
Frank:
I just wear nerd t-shirts.
Aubrey:
You rebelled against the ties.
Frank:
Yeah, I wear nerd t-shirts and a sport jacket and usually just jeans.
Aubrey:
Even for your interviews.
Frank:
All of them yeah and um, it's like one of my shirts says Shall, we play a game and that's from the movie War Games. And I have all these different subtle references. And I was wearing one. I was at the Charlotte airport and it says Anartica Expedition and it gave the date. I think it was like maybe 1982 or something. And this guy came up to me and said you served in Anartica. I'm like no, dude, this is a movie. And another guy next to him said, yeah, that that shirt's from the movie the Thing. And I'm like, okay, we're best friends now Because you know what I'm talking about.
Aubrey:
Yeah.
Frank:
It's a way to sort of connect, which is why my office will always be weirdo land.
Aubrey:
It's funny because I thought of you with this one guy that I work with, who he learned early on that he had autism and so he wanted to kind of I'm not sure if commemorate or to like have have it written on his sleeve or whatever, but he, on his inner forearm he has a like a puzzle piece. Yeah, I informed him recently. I said, dude, like you realize that that really means that there's like a piece of you missing, and that's for autism speaks, and autism speaks.
Frank:
Yeah.
Aubrey:
Don't want to. Don't want to throw, throw shade. I'll stop saying that, any of that right here. But my point being is that you know, I talked to him and I was like dude, you love Star Wars. Like, get something Star Wars there instead. That way, when you talk to people, that they start asking questions about Star Wars and you're automatically gonna find your best friend.
Frank:
That's right. I had a client, but I think I'm seeing this week I've known him since he was, I Don't know, 12 or 13 and nobody said, oh he's borderline, oh he's a cutter, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like I Don't know about that. And I got to talk him with him and he was obsessed with anime and I'm like, and then I just kind of went through his history, family history, I said you know, there's possibly another situation here, and I explained it to him and he goes that's it, that's my life. I'm like that's great. And now he's a third year grad student and he's gonna be a psychologist and he had all these cuts on his arm and he took this I can't remember the name of the anime because I hate anime, but it's like a millipede, a millipede or a centipede, and he had it going into each of his scars and coming out the other ones and I'm like, dude, that's fantastic. And he inspired me to get my first tattoo.
Frank:
Okay and that was rough. I went into shock. It took nine hours. But I'm not gonna say it.
Aubrey:
What a wonderful story for us to wrap up on, and I'm sorry we have to cut things so short. It's been wonderful getting to know you here. Um, how about? So? You mentioned earlier your website, fat cat psych dot com. Are there any other ways for us to get in contact with you?
Frank:
um, I can tell you two fun things. I'm the executive producer of two films on amazon prime. Okay and one is called look to the sky and the other is called legends of the night, and that's k and I ght and you will cry your eyeballs out if you watch these.
Aubrey:
We'll definitely check those out and um, you're also on facebook at frank gaskill and instagram at frank frank gaskill, and also same name on twitter, frank g as k I l so for those of you listen? Oh sorry, go ahead drink. I think.
Frank:
I can't remember my twitter handle. I think it's dr f gaskill. Okay but I don't know okay.
Aubrey:
So for those of you listening in, if you guys like this show and you want to hear more, go ahead and visit us on this radio. Dot us. You can also find out more about my practice at wwwarttherapynccom. Thanks again for joining prank.