Embracing Neuroplasticity to Heal the Legacy of Trauma

Imagine carrying a weight handed down through generations, invisible yet as real as the ground beneath your feet. This is the reality of intergenerational trauma, a topic Christine Abassary unpacks with raw honesty, drawing from her profound counseling experience within Native American communities. Our conversation takes us on an enlightening journey through the landscapes of historical suffering, resilience, and the fascinating science of epigenetics. You'll discover the brain's remarkable ability for neuroplasticity and how therapy can catalyze healing, bringing the light of understanding to the darkest corners of ancestral pain.

The art of healing comes alive as Christine Abassary, an innovative therapist, joins us to blend the vibrancy of experiential art with the pursuit of joyful living. We explore the nuances of building trust and readiness in clients, discussing how mindfulness and grounding techniques, including EMDR and bilateral drawing, can pave the way for rapid progress toward a happier existence. Christine's unique approach to integrating art into therapy ignites a discussion on joy and fun as fundamental human rights, a testament to the potency of creativity in fostering well-being and transformation.

Instagram: @CABASSARY
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/christine-abassary-31aba552/
https://www.psychologytoday.com/profile/1007709

This program is brought to you by:
Kindred Art Therapy
Visit https://www.arttherapync.com/ to schedule a free consultation.
- and -
Alynee Davis, PLLC
Visit https://alynnedavis.com/ to connect.
Alynne is a Licensed Clinical Mental Health Counselor and Coach.

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Transcript

Aubrey: 1:01

Welcome to Kindred Conversations, the show where we shine a light on local mental health professionals, who are the unsung heroes of our community. Join us as we delve into their journey, strategies and the art of healing minds. Together, we'll break down stigmas and celebrate resilience. I'm Aubrey Baptista, I'm the host of this show and I'm welcoming Christina Bassery here today, who is a local. Christine, you are a local mental health counselor or social worker.

Christine : 1:30

Counselor, licensed counselor yes.

Aubrey: 1:32

Thank you, welcome Welcome.

Christine : 1:35

Thank you so much, Aubrey, and glad to be here.

Aubrey: 1:38

Yeah, so tell me more about your career and what really brought you to this field. What makes you stay in it.

Christine : 1:47

That's a good question. Let's see, it's been a journey in New Mexico for many years while obtaining my doctorate and a combination between health and counseling psychology, and I had the privilege to work on some reservations, and so I learned a lot through that journey and then, just in the past few years, have transitioned to private practice when I moved to North Carolina.

Aubrey: 2:22

So when you were saying that you were practicing in different reservations, are you saying like Native American reservations?

Christine : 2:28

Yes.

Aubrey: 2:29

Okay, so you got to see a side of mental health that many professionals don't get to see.

Christine : 2:36

Yes, I worked a lot with trauma historical trauma primarily and also the resilience of the Native American people with their spirituality, which was a great learning experience and good to be a part of. And so I think, in this journey, the second part of your question is seeing the growth in individuals through counseling. I mean, it can be, you know, years before we see glimmers of hope at times, but continuing to see that and being able to now transfer these skills to work in North Carolina here has been amazing. So I just yeah, I'm constantly learning, constantly evolving in this journey and that's what keeps me here keeps me here.

Aubrey: 3:41

So when you're talking about historical trauma, you're saying like you went through and learned a lot of that history so that you could really understand what the trauma was. Is that what you're saying?

Christine : 3:49

Somewhat I just I was able to see it firsthand. Yeah, I mean, there could be current traumas, obviously, but then some folks, you know, young people are born and their circumstances are much better, let's say, than their parents or grandparents, but they continue to experience symptoms of anxiety or depression and wondering where does this come from? So, connecting folks to their core and moving through those traumas was something that I learned a lot about. And then I followed up with my dissertation, studying counselors who conduct suicide risk assessments for youth. Yeah, so, like what you know, what keeps us in the field and sustains us, but also qualitative study, learning about the counselors that were conducting the assessments and things that arose, you know, with children because they were referred by the school system for any type of ideation. So we would.

Christine : 5:03

I was also working in this field for seven years doing the crisis response with parents and a lot of parents would say I don't understand. You know they have a roof over their head, they have a parent at least one of us who is, or both, you know rooting for them and where is this all coming from? And so you know, seeing that you know with parents how things transfer and their parents and, yes, life can get better, but we carry these within our bodies and until they're released somatically or, you know, with a combination of therapies. That's why you know a lot of us, you know coming from all different, you know parts of the world, not just the Native American cultures, have experienced trauma along the line and it's just interesting to me, fascinating, that the science now says, well, it can actually retain within seven generations. I'm not sure the exact formula on that, but it makes a lot of sense to me somehow.

Aubrey: 6:18

I'm glad that we're getting to record basically on this topic, because what you're talking about is intergenerational trauma and there's been a lot of research that's been done around epigenetics. So you're talking about how it can be retained, not just through behavior and learning but also through, like the DNA system but also through, like the DNA system, yes, I mean when you look at also health and disease.

Christine : 6:48

And like diabetes for instance, you know if you are within, you know, a certain group, ethnicity, you have a higher chance of diabetes. So think of sort of the not to say that you can't change that through lifestyle and practice, but there's just more of a predisposition. And I would say the same about historical trauma. If your ancestors, you know, or even your parents, you know, experience anxiety, so you, more, you know, have a chance of that, that not to say again that these things can't be dealt with and effectively. Once you know, you sort of target those things and bring that awareness to folks. So I think being a counselor is, is is an amazing, you know, amazing privilege that we have to be able to help folks walk those paths. And as far as epigenetics and even the neuroscience, right now, which is interesting is that the idea of neurogenesis, that we can heal trauma Previously and our adult brain continues to grow with neuroplasticity, versus prior research said, okay, after a certain amount of, you know, growth, it's going to stop. So now the research and this is relatively recent, you know, within the past 10 years is actually pinpointing it. You know, a lot of us counselors said of course people are resilient and can change, but thanks to the scientists, now they're actually pinpointing that through, which is another link is novel experiences.

Christine : 8:34

So when I work with folks, I think you know, counseling in itself could be a novel experience. We're changing the way we think about things and that translates to all the body systems and communicates and through repetition, like anything else, exercising muscles, we can work to, you know, heal these traumas. To heal these traumas and not to say that folks, you know, sometimes traumas are so deep and it might take more time or some things might never get close to where it needs to be, but it can get a whole lot better for folks. I don't wanna say, well, you know, pressure individuals to think, okay, we can flip the switch and do a couple sessions and we're good, but it is being able to target and bring the awareness. There is so much hope within our field. Situations that took years to work through can now be targeted, I believe, and work through a lot more. I want to say quickly, because you know things take time, but efficiently or efficacious, so what?

Aubrey: 9:56

you're saying is like you stay in this because you get to witness a lot of growth and shifting in the people that you serve, and so that is very gratifying to your career and so it sounds like you have a lot of success in what you do. I was curious if you would share like one or two of the people that you may have helped and maybe like a pattern or something that you've helped them overcome or something that you've been able to helpfully, successfully help somebody through. Sorry, my words are You're good.

Christine : 10:29

Yeah, I know I have the same situation. Yeah, yeah, without mentioning people, places or things, I've worked with let's more or less. I've worked with several men and young, young adolescents as well, different genders, but mostly women now in my practice, folks with some heavy duty traumas obviously. However, you know, at points you know, it could take years just to build trust. But recently I found, when folks come in and they say I'm ready to work and I'm ready to move through this and feeling, you know, courageous about that and feeling good because it is scary, we say okay, now we're going to, you know, pinpoint your trauma and you're going to have to revisit it. However, I also remind folks that once we move through it, you've moved through it, and this is utilizing EMDR, but also other methods. You can use bilateral drawing, which stimulates the right and left hemispheres of the brain, which is another part of science that you know is emerging as far as how we process and how we can release neural pathways. So, building that trust, you know I can't just come in as a scientist. I need to build rapport, I need to build trust, I need to build resourcing within folks, which is a lot of mindfulness activities can be out of a crisis state and ready to work with things and sort of like test phase. Something came up in your environment. Can you bring yourself down to self-regulation through mindfulness activities and then from there, yes, it's like in the past.

Christine : 12:40

I think it would take me six months to a year to get to where I am with individuals and if they do have that readiness to change and you know everybody's amount of chaos we're not going to completely remove the chaos in your life, but you're not actively in a crisis situation. I am finding folks moving through a lot more quickly than finding room now in their brain to start addressing their health, to start addressing their relationships, to open up. You know creativity, Maybe you know like myself, you know I had this like dormant creativity thing that they wanted to pursue, whether it be art or music or dance, and seeing that joy, it's just, I mean, it's beyond amazing. So that's what sustains me Now. Do I have days where I'm just so frustrated and I'm sitting there? Yes, I can see the train wreck. Can you just stop? Can you just stop and pause and think for a moment, before we head off on this train wreck, that you want to keep jumping?

Aubrey: 13:57

on. Yeah, cause you don't just witness like the good times, you witness like the failures too.

Christine : 14:04

Yeah, I mean, it's just all part of the journey and and I use the mostly my my foundation is client centered or um, mixed with motivational interviewing. So if you're not ready to do this, then you're not ready. I can't enforce it on you. I'm not living inside your body and we could spend six months to a year digesting the issues. However, I will encourage you. Hey, do you want to feel better in your body? And most people do, and so what can we do to move through this? And it takes time. Everybody's different.

Christine : 14:44

Some people are just they've identified, they know what the cause was, they know what the situation was, they know the feelings that emerge from it about themselves, whether it be you know I'm not enough, or self-sabotage, or you know all those negative beliefs and they're ready to just embrace it for a moment and then, wow, let's transform those thoughts now to I am enough and I'm an amazing, you know, capable human being that went through some stuff, whether it be even complicated childhood, because I have folks that you know they don't identify with a clear cut trauma.

Christine : 15:29

However they had, you know, parents that were anxious or depressed or substance use or just didn't encourage them. I mean, there's there's a um, a uh, a bell curve of situations, and you define your situation, um, and you can't compare it to anybody else, can't say, well, I didn't go through, this wasn't as bad as my sister, my brother. However, it's your experience, so whatever's going to light you up so you can, you know, get through these layers and shed some of these things so you can live a happier life. Essentially, I think, is what it boils down to, if that makes sense.

Aubrey: 16:14

Yeah, Earlier, you had said something about teaching people to ground themselves through mindfulness activities. I was curious like is that a lot of what your work is in the beginning with people is like helping them to learn how to ground through mindfulness? Definitely.

Christine : 16:33

And I think you know our culture. There's just so much, you know. There's just so much. You know dysregulation that occurs and most people can benefit, I would say, with some reminders. Some people, you know they have their yoga practice and things. However, a lot of us, just that, daily I send out with all my forms diaphragmatic breathing Okay, let's just start with breathing and you look at a baby and then their little stomach is moving up and down. They know what they're doing and somehow we mess it up, somehow.

Aubrey: 17:09

we mess it up. Why is that so important?

Christine : 17:12

Because it's everything. It's sending the messages throughout the body that you're safe, that you're okay. Because if you're running on that fight or flight, it's, it's sending messages. You know, through the body too, that you're not safe and you're not okay, and yeah.

Aubrey: 17:34

so what happens to your breathing when you're in fight or flight?

Christine : 17:39

It increases, you feel like you can feel like tension in your chest. I mean personally, I mean I go through these sort of symptom identifications with people. Some people are just so used to it, it's their modus operandi, until you like work with them and say, okay, let's try some of these exercises, and you know it's like anything else, let's just build up, let's just try five minutes a day. I mean you don't even have to be, you know, in a nice cozy spot. You could be sitting at the red light practicing your diaphragmatic breathing.

Aubrey: 18:21

So it's earlier. Yeah, earlier, you had mentioned dysregulation. I actually had a client say to me one time like what, what is that word? They hadn't heard that word and I defined it for them and so I was going to have you say like a little bit about that just for the audience's sake around. Like what is dysregulation? And like why are we even diving into all of this? What is dysregulation? And like why are we even diving into all of this breathing and dysregulation in the body? What's happening?

Christine : 18:49

That's a great question. Again, I'm talking about majority. There's people that you know can walk through life calmly, but you know we're all going to come across something at some point in our lives and, um, it's our perception of the, the thing that happens to us. Right, the trauma happens or the situation happens, but our perceptions. So why not tell the brain and? And if you need to fight or flight and get out of something, go ahead. You know that that's, that's good. That kept us alive, running from the dinosaurs. But there's not the dinosaurs every day now. Or were we around when the dinosaurs?

Aubrey: 19:31

really not the bear.

Christine : 19:34

Okay, If you see a bear maybe well, maybe you do need to stay.

Christine : 19:39

Still, another bad example If someone breaks into your house, it's okay to fight or flight. But if you're just well starting to get fight or flight because your co-worker or your boss or your friend said something you didn't like, well, you're just telling your boss, you're just kind of I want to say, well, in a way, you're beating yourself up Versus. Let me tell myself something else, a different story. Let me just I have a thing instead of stop, drop and roll, it's pause, rest and reframe. So let me just take a minute.

Christine : 20:16

Yeah, this situation, you know, I really wanted that, that job or that situation or relationship or thing to work out. But let me just, instead of going on the track the negative thinking, because what does that lead to? It doesn't help the situation, right, and I'm not saying like toxic positivity, I'm just saying like, how can I not hurt myself, not hurt my body? And and reframe this situation. Is it possible to reframe it? And um, rest and and uh, yeah, should we be in more joy than suffering? Is is the bottom line, and that's why I guess getting back to actually dis-ease, you can say mental health or you can say actually bodily symptoms, but they're all interrelated.

Aubrey: 21:33

Yeah, so what you were talking about around the dysregulation was just like losing control, in the situation where you know they might say something that they didn't mean to say because in that moment they were dysregulated, they might've felt hurt. They might say something that they didn't mean to say because in that moment they were dysregulated, they might have felt hurt or they might have felt something that made them want to say something that is not appropriate. But instead, calming down, breathing, taking a moment of pause to re-regulate the system can help to like jumpstart and be able to think of what the right thing or the thing that's most effective in the moment is going to help get them through. So that's what you're working on teaching them.

Christine : 22:12

Yeah, and you want to go with your higher faculties versus the amygdala, the survival brain, to make decisions, because a lot of people, let's say they get in a fight with someone automatically oh, okay, I'm going to pack up my stuff, I'm out of here. Fight or flight versus okay, let me breathe. You know that might be the end result, and not to say domestic violence or physical violence. That's a different situation, you know. But okay, even if the situation is not a good situation, let me get into my higher level thinking abilities to make these decisions.

Christine : 22:50

Versus going with a fight or flight reactions or shutting down, you can go into what's called functional freeze, where you just go numb and you're just going through life like a robot to exist, versus you know, all these things are linked, all these memories, and they all go back to something. If it is triggering and I'm not saying if someone did something wrong, you know, did something that was not ethically or, you know, harmful, you know that is a different situation. But also, once you get away from that situation, what happens with trauma is we continue to beat ourselves up, so to speak, and live in anxiety or fear or depression, versus healing those traumas and telling ourselves a different story. Yes, I went through something that was not good, or, yes, that was not a good situation, but okay, let me reframe it. Maybe it opened the door for another situation to come in. That's even better for me than staying in something that was not good in the first place, if that makes sense.

Aubrey: 24:02

It makes a lot of sense. Christine, I think you'd be like a great person for people to talk to. How can people learn more about you and find more of your information online so that they can reach out to you?

Christine : 24:16

I'm on psychology today and it's my name Christine Abassari, so C-H-R-A-S-T-I-N-E-A-B-A-S-S-A-R-Y in North Carolina. So I practice in North Carolina through licensure. I'm also working with some experiential art through ArtPlay, and that's in Asheville, so you can look me up there for I'm doing some. Stay in place because I believe it's our our right as human beings to have fun and experience joy, and that's separate from the practice.

Aubrey: 24:51

Awesome. Well, thanks again for joining and for those of you listening in. You can find more information about this show on bizradious. You can find me, Aubrey Baptista, the host, on wwwarttherapynccom.